Improving Surgical Care from Readiness to Recovery

Episode Contents

• 0:00 NovaNav Introduction
• 1:00 Guest Introduction: Amrit Kirpalani, CEO and Founder
• 2:30 The catalyst behind creating NovaNav
• 7:05 Fragmented care and common patient friction points
• 12:44 Beyond intraoperative excellence: pre-op and post-op opportunities to reduce clinical and financial risk
• 18:00 Pre-op actions that improve post-discharge outcomes
• 20:36 Change management: introducing a new model within health systems
• 25:44 NovaNav Use Case: pre-op interventions to reduce readmissions
• 29:24 Why patients adopt technology that makes their lives easier
• 31:24 30-day readmission use cases
• 33:33 The role of AI in healthcare in 2026
• 38:35 Wrap-up

Key Takeaways

Together, Lisa and Amrit discuss patient anxiety, variability across health systems, the burden on clinical staff, and why consistency and clear communication are so difficult to achieve in complex surgical environments. They also explore how data, technology, and AI can help reduce administrative workload, support better decision-making, and allow care teams to focus more on patient care.

This episode sets the foundation for our podcast series, offering listeners a thoughtful look at the challenges, opportunities, and future of perioperative care.

Transcript

Okay, so here, all right, Amrit, welcome to the surgical journey. Thank you. This is so fun, Lisa, to get this going together. I love it.

I love it. So I have been really excited about launching the podcast with you, and for many reasons, particularly because this is a passion of mine. And so this is going to be fun. And to start things off, you're the CEO and founder of NovaNav, which you'll tell the audience about NovaNav and a little bit about your background and then why we're here today and why we're talking about the surgical journey.

Yeah, no, absolutely, Lisa. And one of the things that I'll also say even before diving into my background and NovaNav and such, I mean, just hats off to you for even suggesting that this podcast should exist, the surgical journey, it's one of those, I mean, it's the stories that we're going to tell about patients, it's healthcare leaders. So very excited to get this going together and hats off to you for even making this all happen. But yes, just a little bit about myself or whoever's listening in.

And over time, we'll hope that more and more people will be listening into the podcast series. My personal background is in data, analytics, technology. I'm a father of three kiddos. I'm also a son.

And frankly, it's that last piece that led me to the idea about NovaNav and what we're doing. And the short version of the story, Lisa, is that, I mean, as you know, but for really everyone else listening in, a number of years ago, my mother had to undergo total knee replacement surgery. I live here in Dallas. My parents moved to Dallas because of the grandkids.

So everyone's here and mom had to, was feeling super uncomfortable and found a very good surgeon at a major hospital system here in North Texas. I won't say the name of the hospital system just to protect the innocent, but a big system here in North Texas and excellent surgeon. And mom said, you know, Amrit, if you can come with me to the different appointments, would be really helpful. And I did, you know, would go with mom as she was first getting to know the surgeon.

And then over time, as those reviews were happening and such, eventually she got approved and, you know, cleared to do the surgery. But one of the things that I noted was for mom, I'm not in healthcare. I'm not a doctor. I'm not a physician, nurse, you know, et cetera.

Neither are my parents or anyone in the immediate family. But frankly, what I would say is it was hard for mom. It was primarily, here's a stack of paper instructions that felt like a mini book, overwhelming with some of the terminology. So mom was asking me questions.

Some of it I could help decipher for her and others, I would go to friends and say, okay, there's the clearances that need to be received. We don't have a cardiologist. Okay. We need to get a referral.

You know, of course, a primary care referrals, there's a stack of equipment that needs to be purchased for the house, et cetera. So it was overwhelming for mom, not to mention she was also nervous about a major surgery, you know, for herself. So she was anxious. And then surgery went really well.

And after the surgery was frankly very similar, where this time the hospital took those instructions, and it was very nice of them to do what I'm about to describe, printed out in color, they put it in a binder with wonderful tabs in between. But it was even more overwhelming for mom. A lot of information, a lot of instruction. And the discharge nurse basically said, PT will reach out, you know, within 24 hours, that'll get scheduled.

You'll see the surgeon again in about, I think it was eight or 10 days. And sure enough, mom got discharged and she's at home and complications are moving up and down and pain level and trying to reach someone in the doctor's office. And it was hard. That's really what sparked the idea for Novanev, where my personal background in technology and analytics, but then also some, a number of the colleagues that I have as friends that are saying, gosh, this, what your mother experienced is not unique to this surgeon slash this hospital.

And then really set out on a process, almost like a mini research study where spoke to a number of executives, try to understand, is this normal? Is this usual? Spoke to surgeons, their care teams. And they all basically said a variation of the same thing, that the typical approach, very paper heavy, nurse navigators, the PAs, nurse practitioners, I mean, they put a lot on their shoulders to check in with patients.

Patients like my mom have lots of questions, so they're calling and just really heard almost across the board with the exception of a couple of places that a lot of administrative burden to help manage the patient volumes that they get. And so that's what Novanev, that's what created Novanev. And we're focused on the perioperative experience, pre and post-op in particular, help make it easier for patients to get ready for surgery and then recover from that surgery while reducing administrative burden, reducing late reschedules and no-shows, and identifying complications and recovery issues before a patient has to get readmitted is kind of the worst case scenario. I mean, put it in a nutshell, we're an AI enabled surgical solution.

That's what we are at Novanev. Right. I love hearing this story. I've heard it many times.

I just think about your mom and my mom also had a knee replacement. I'm sure everybody that's listening has had parents have had different procedures, so they will clearly understand what you just spoke about. And it's fragmented care, and it's not bad care, it's just a little disjointed. So I guess the question is, in your opinion, where do you think it commonly breaks down?

Are those common friction points for patients? And then just a follow up question, why do you think it's been so hard for health systems to address it? I think it's a complicated answer because it's a complicated system, but trying to simplify it in my own mind, Lisa, and I'll just share, I would say some anecdotes and take it from the lens of the patient, and then a separate lens as the group of providers, health system, etc. One of the things I've heard, and again, just reflecting on mom's experience and other friends that have gone through surgeries, etc.

And that's the world that we're focused on, primarily surgery procedures, because of the sheer complexity of it. But one of the primary themes that I've heard on the patient side, is really about this notion of I'm going in for a major surgery. I'm anxious, I'm nervous, I don't know how this is really going to go. And just very simplistically, and this is not, you know, hyperbole.

I remember my mother as she was going into the OR and was there with mom, etc. She went to the extent of almost saying goodbye. What if I don't wake up from this surgery? And so we think about that from a patient perspective, there's nervousness, there's anxiety, all the things that we understand and the audience understands.

The thing that I'll add to it that adds even more complexity from a patient perspective is, and we've heard this around the country to different degrees, literacy levels can vary drastically, just pure understanding of, you know, a complicated set of activities that is about to happen with that patient. Some patients just really don't understand what some of that terminology means. The next layer of complexity is language, right? So sometimes there's actually a language barrier, you know, Spanish versus English, you know, different parts of the country, that also make it more problematic.

So problematic. So from a patient perspective, there's already anxiety, there's lots of information. A clinical psychologist that we've worked with in the past has talked about anxiety from the perspective of, how do you help a patient gain a sense of control and gain a sense of, I understand what's happening and what's about to take place. You give them a sense of control, you give them instructions that are clear, that almost feels like a work plan, right?

And that's one of the philosophies that we've brought in at NovaNav. But flipping the conversation point to the healthcare system, we all know it, we all see it, we all hear it, that it's complex. And I think the reason that it's as complex as it gets is about one word. And this is what I've summarized it in my own mind.

And that word is variability. It's variability from the perspective of surgeon A to surgeon B at that same facility, excellent outcomes, perhaps doing things slightly differently than each other because of their expertise and their experience. And then you take it to the next layer where staff, nursing staff, MAs, PAs, schedulers, et cetera. At the end of the day, we're all human.

We have different ways that sometimes we prefer to do certain things, even though there's protocol, even though there's a standardized checklist, et cetera. So really because of variability that sits within the system, surgeon to surgeon, facility A to facility B, person A to person B, by definition, it is very hard to standardize. We can train, there's protocol. And so that's where, again, I think part of our belief from a Novanav perspective is, and we see this in other areas in healthcare, absolutely, in other technologies and different parts in the workflow, elements that can bring in some level of standardization.

And ERAS has done that from recovery perspective. There's quality bundles. The goal of those is standardization and quality metrics, et cetera. But then the implementation is really left down to that individual and what they're doing in that moment, in that moment in the interaction with the patient.

So therefore, our point of view is it's really about the tool sets that help bring standardization, and then you get better measures, you get better outcome, et cetera. But frankly, you also reduce operational burden and frankly, mental workload on staff members and team members that are helping to deliver that care. I think variability is frankly one of the drivers of what makes this so complex. I agree completely.

I mean, I think it is one word. It's variability across everything. You said it well, system, physician, patient, because patients are all different. It's the sensitivity levels to medication or like you said, literacy, everything is so variable.

So you put it all together and it almost becomes a three, four X level variability, right? It just becomes so more complex. Exactly. Hospitals work so much on operative or interoperative excellence, right?

So that's the world I came in from. So that's surgical environment, the peri-op environment, yet so much happens outside the walls of the hospital, right? So it's pre-op, right? Readiness and some of that, the things before the surgery and boy, a great deal happens post-op.

And so as you are now working so closely with so many systems and delivering the solutions on the platform, what do you think creates the greatest clinical and financial risk across those episodes? And I know it's on both ends, so maybe speak on the pre-op and the post-op side. What are those risks or what are those opportunities? Because I think that's where NovaNav shines, right?

On those two bookends. Yeah. I mean, both of us are in a number of meetings with some of these hospital systems and executives and often in the same meetings when you're hearing it from multiple angles. I'll give you an example of a conversation we had with the health system just last week.

One of the largest health systems in the United States. We were in the meeting and we had surgeons in the meeting. We had schedulers in the meeting. We had pre-op staff.

We had post-op staff. And it was really an introductory conversation around the problem set that NovaNav helps solve, but done in a manner where we're really trying to understand what some of their key challenges are. And so we described what NovaNav does and how we fit pre-op and post-op. And so now moving the lens away from NovaNav for a moment, one of the nurses had this aha moment.

And I was in the room and I can see her eyes light up. She goes, wait a minute. You're telling me that one of the opportunities we have that we can solve for together is patients today. And again, this is a very large health system for complex procedures that are taking place.

She said patients today get sometimes four or five different instruction sets. They get an instruction set from their surgeon. They go to PAT. There's sometimes an alternate instruction set.

They'll go to the pharmacy, an instruction set. They come to us as the hospital for the surgery, sometimes an alternate instruction set. And so one of the things that we hear about, and this is this nurse saying, is that those instructions sometimes conflict. So what is the right answer for the patient and what are they really supposed to do?

And so getting to the heart of your question, Lisa, around where some of those challenges start to come about on the pre-op and the post-op side, some of it is the consistency of communication to the patient. The consistency of the communication sets expectation. And if those expectations are adjusting or conflicting with each other, those instructions are, with a patient that's already nervous, anxious, et cetera, this becomes even more exacerbated, right? It becomes a harder challenge.

What then happens? Patients are not doing what they're supposed to do when they're supposed to do it. We know that for certain surgeries, there's a pretty stringent timeline around when clearances need to happen, the windows of time when the lab work needs to be done, readiness activity in terms of medication stoppage, adjustment, et cetera. If those windows are missed because instructions are conflicting or not consistent with each other, that's a challenge.

And that challenge creates conversations that are happening between the care team member and the patient to try to clarify that challenge. Or the worst possible outcome is patient didn't get their clearance done on time, or the clearance wasn't received by the office on time, or our case gets moved out at the last minute. And that's a challenge now for oral utilization and other downstream impacts. So that's just an example on the pre-op side.

And I know we're getting tight on time, but just watching, thinking about the post-op or really post-discharge, the biggest challenge, and we've heard this from surgeons again and again and again. Our understanding is that surgeons are held to a quality framework called recognize and rescue. The main challenge is once a patient is discharged and now at home, and sometimes in rehab or a SNF, how do you effectively and on a timely basis recognize there's a problem so that you can rescue? Our point of view there is there's an information gap.

You don't know how the patient's really doing unless you're calling the patient or the patient's calling you, which again drives phone call volume. I think it speaks to what you said earlier about variability. So if you have the data, that's data that the physicians can see post-op. And any bit of, even the slightest bit of variability, they can handle in real time before it becomes a major issue.

And that's what we hear from a lot of the surgeons as well, being able to identify that. So, you know, I love, as you know, the post-op side, the management side, because I think, you know, my experience is when patients leave their discharge, I think they're very, that transition is a very vulnerable time, i.e. you spoke about it with your mom, and I think being able to have that seamless level of comfort and communication to be able to take you through the 30 days in many cases now, of course, with all the bundle payments is so important to your point about, you know, rescue and recover. I will want to mention one thing on the pre-op side is that, you know, there is also this thinking about even operational excellence on the front end.

So if we can really get our patients to, you know, prehab and to maybe lower their anxiety and give them more instructions and, like you said, more control and information, that will help outcomes significantly. They already know what's going to happen when they're discharged. If they have a view on that, I think that impacts care. And I believe, which is what I love, is that's the NovaNav, you know, full view, right?

It's important to take an end-to-end view on on this surgical journey. Yeah, I mean, one of the things that we believe in and I believe in and the team believes in is in post-discharge is really where quality happens, right? Meaning the quality outcome happens. However, the habits are built pre-op.

Exactly. Before that procedure, surgery, make sure that the patient's doing what they're supposed to. It becomes part of routine and therefore post-discharge makes it, it's better for information gathering. It's better for the patient to understand what it is that you should expect.

Like all of that habit is built pre-op. And that's a, you know, of course, if it's emergent, that's a different issue altogether. But particularly for a planned procedure, you know, a surgery, then building those habits pre-op, huge. Yes, agreed.

I'm going to talk a little bit about, as you're, you know, the founder and CEO of NovaNav, and your leadership view or standpoint on what you've learned about change management when you kind of introduce these new models, right? How are they handled, right? Because they're, you know, we know that they're stretched. I mean, they're stretched the hospital systems operationally when something new comes in.

But the reality is, whether it's, you know, all these bundle payments that are occurring, they, hospitals are having to do care redesign. They're having to put in, layer in supports around care navigators. But what's your perspective on this as it relates to change management and the success as we bring in a NovaNav platform? Yeah, I mean, unless everybody is really bought in, rowing in the same direction, whatever analogy we want to use, it won't, there's, we won't get success, right?

And I, this is even pre-NovaNav and learned this earlier on in my career was, you know, consultant at McKinsey would spend a fair amount of time on org design and behavior, you know, et cetera. So some of what to say is really influenced by some of those early experiences and those stories, you know, and the, one of the notions, one of the things that we hear, and I would say it's, it's almost a binary decision, but I have a strong point of view about what side of the decision to go, which is do it all at once or do a little bit at a time, build confidence and scale, right? Where health systems, of course, are used to this notion of, gosh, I'm going to make an EMR change. Got to do this massive adjustment.

You're doing it effectively all at once, or if it's an IDN, then it's maybe I start with the hospitals and I moved to the ambulatory surgery centers. So there's some ability to not do it all at once. With NovaNav, I think the additional complexity or any technology like NovaNav that influences the patient experience in particular, and now with the growth of AI and what AI means in terms of both technology development, what it means for how we all work, whether it's as in the healthcare world, non-healthcare world, you know, even talking to our attorney last week and the utilization of AI in that space. I mean, every space is utilizing AI in different ways and each area continues to advance rapidly at the pace which you're utilizing AI.

So my answer there on change management, understanding that fundamentally what we're trying to do is change the hearts and minds of people. Minds from the perspective of the logic that goes into a series of actions and steps that need to occur. Workflow is now going to look different. Input points are now going to look a little bit different.

What comes out of it may be looking a little bit different, so meaning this is very logic-oriented component to it. And the other area that's extremely important is this notion of the heart. What does this really mean for me as the individual that's working as part of the change management effort? I don't mean me as Amrit, but I mean me as the nurse or me as a scheduler or me as a surgeon or me as the operational leader.

What's my role and what's my component in that? That piece of it, the combination of the heart and the mind, I think makes it very difficult to make massive change very quickly. So I think really the approach there is start small, build champions, and beyond that build confidence that this can work. There may be some adjustments we need to make along the way.

We will do this in a collaborative manner. We've heard this a number of times. In fact, that same meeting last week, several of the nurses said, gosh, when the new EMR rolled out and along with a couple other systems, it was just forced down on us. The fact that our leadership, meaning and they're pointing to their hospital leadership, along with a third party, we're sitting here together today to get our input before a decision is even made is something that felt groundbreaking to them.

They felt, yeah, my opinion is valued. So again, what that means is we're trying to tap into the logic of what is the implication for the pathway, the workflow, etc., which is informational and that's very important. And at the same time, from a change management perspective, we're leaning into understanding their heart, what it is that they want, and making it collaborative, making it so that everyone feels part of it. They're a champion.

And I feel like that, you know, start small, gain those wins, build confidence, do it in a collaborative manner is, again, my opinion, and then it snowballs from there. You build confidence and champions, more and more folks see that and they get attracted to it. So that's just good advice, generally speaking. Anyone can use any health system for any kind of implementation, by the way.

That was amazing. I just, I kind of want to do something a little different. I'd like to hear you talk about maybe a specific use case or success story or, you know, give your overview of like why the NovaNav platform specifically, like the why, the how, like how is it used from a hospital, from a very practical perspective, and how it solves some problems. That would be helpful for the audience.

Yeah, no, that's fair, Lisa. And in fact, I probably should have started that maybe at the beginning part of the conversation, didn't want to make it overly about NovaNav. But, you know, a few things that I'll say, I mean, the way we approach technology and we are an AI healthcare company, right? I mean, that's what we are, enabled by data and analytics and how we engage with our customers, which are hospitals and practices, large practices and ambulatory surgery centers and such.

It's really focused on this prior question around change management, pragmatic, start small, prove value, focus on the ROI and benefit and impact to the patient in terms of outcome, along with the benefit and impact for staff members. And so typically, the answer to your kind of single pointed question is, it depends on the situation. But typically what I would say is, we'll start pre-op and maybe it's a challenge around readmissions for CABG and utilizing the data that we can get access to related to what are those readmission rates? What are patient satisfaction scores related to communication or engagement with staff members?

And those start to give nuggets of information around what some of the pain points in the workflow are or logjams in the workflow. And so, for example, if the goal is reduce readmission rate with CABG, and like I was saying earlier on with the patient, we start building the habits prior to the procedure even taking place. So what does that mean? On the pre-op front, bringing to them the information that they need in order, and think of instructions, right?

You have to get your clearances, you have to get your lab work done, you have to, some of the prehab activity, even adjusting nutrition, et cetera, exercise, the rhythm of your life as that patient that's going in for a planned CABG has to start adjusting, ideally, before that procedure even takes place. And so what we're focused on there is, I would say something relatively simplistic. It is taking the information sets that are contained in the surgeon's orders and the hospital orders, et cetera, and then bringing those to the patient in a manner where they now understand what it is that they're supposed to do, right? That's what the technology has really been built around.

And then it doesn't just stop there. It's giving the feedback loop to the care team members so that the care team now understands which patients are truly ready versus which patients are falling behind on what it is that they're supposed to do, right? And that's just an example on the pre-op front. And you can continue that habit with the patient to post-discharge and understand, are there issues that are taking place that could be an indicator of a complication before that becomes emergent?

And again, that becomes about the data that we're capturing from the patient post-discharge to be able to bring that to the care team to make a decision. Yeah, that's great. And I have a few more questions, but it's my philosophy that, and from also being a caregiver of kids and particularly my mom, that patients really don't want to be calling or questioning. They don't want, you know, like if they had the roadmap, they would use the roadmap.

And, you know, I feel like they're, you know, I'll speak for myself, like, I don't want to have to bother the office. You know, my mom would feel guilty. She'd say, I don't want to call them. I said, but that's what they're there for.

No, it's okay. I'll wait till tomorrow. Yeah. And I, I think over overarching, that is how everybody feels, right?

Like, so I think patients want this. I think that they're, they're happy. Like sometimes we're like, oh, the, you know, maybe the seniors won't use this. Well, my mom is, will be 90 this year and she used her phone every single day.

A hundred percent. My mother in her late seventies. Now her first place that she goes to is chat GPT for any questions that you ask, not Google anymore. So I, I think it patients want this.

They, they recognize that the, their providers of care are busy. I, you know, and they, they don't want to have to, you know, ask a bunch of questions in or not, you know, on the, on the post-op side. So I actually feel that this is, these are things that patients want. They're looking for, they're looking for the solutions.

They're looking for the answers. And the way we think about it is we're providing patients additional ways to access information. It doesn't mean that if they want to pick up the phone and have a conversation with the MA and the nurse practitioner or the surgeon, that they cannot do that. That option always exists.

And now we're presenting some alternate options to capture or, or, you know, share information with a patient that can feel more timely, consistent, you know, and then again, has a feedback loop from a data perspective. Right. And you mentioned something about cabbage procedures, which I'll just mention, talk a little bit about how much focus, you know, whether it's Medicare or even, you know, payers are on that, you know, 30 days, you know, the readmissions generally speaking, you know, everybody is focused on the readmissions and cabbage tends to have a higher readmission rate. And so that's a, that's a prime use case for us because that's a very, you know, significant life event for a patient and their family.

Right. So, you know, they're, they're of course stressed. And, you know, they, they want their loved one, they, you know, they want to recover. And yet, you know, sometimes whether it's a wound, you know, whether it's a site infection or, or any other kind of complication, I think it's really important that, you know, we're building those, those, those, I guess those data points, you talk a lot about messy data, but really being able to understand that so that we're protecting the patient, right.

We want to give excellent patient care so they feel good, but we're also giving the hospitals and the surgeons, the ability to have the insights. I think cabbage is a great use case because that's a lot of eyes on that readmissions very costly. And I think, I think we're going to see more of those, you know, use cases and those complex. Oh, no, absolutely.

I mean, and Lisa, again, I know you're one of the major experts or key experts around CMS team, right. Whether that's for NovaNav or even more beyond that, but cabbages within it, we know lower joints there. And as we start to think about the other procedure types there's a similar need across a number of them, right. Even procedures like colonoscopies and such where there it's really all about prep and being ready for the colonoscopy, but lower joint and particularly those handful of procedures of five procedures and CMS team, that's a, that's a really big deal.

And the year 2026 has started. So all the more important. So I'm going to end with one last question. And I think as we look ahead in the next year, I don't think we can look much further than a year.

What do you think the role of AI is in, you know, whether it's data, predictive analytics, you know, preventing complications, how do you see the role of AI and also how important it is to us at NovaNav? How do you, how important it is for us as we deliver a very, you know, a patient care platform? What are your thoughts? Yeah.

I mean, at the heart of it, again, we're an AI healthcare company, so we think about use of AI, how we utilize AI to even build our platform. So there's a lot of components around that. But really I think the, my major takeaway with AI and where it sits today and looks like where it's going to continue to evolve over the coming months and years, it is a tool to make our lives more effective so that we can spend the time on doing the things that we want to do. That's really, in a nutshell, what I believe AI is for.

And so if we were to take that from the perspective of in the healthcare space, we hear again and again and again, there's a lot of administrative burdens. I'll give, even more specifically, I'll hear from nurses, I am not getting the chance to work the top of my license delivering patient care because I'm spending so much of my time on answering phone calls, updating a chart, following up on all the various components that are more administrative in nature. I want to spend my time on, in the OR. I want to spend my time at the bedside.

So that is a theme that we hear again and again and again. So if we can release an hour or two or three out of the day from administrative tasks, that allows nurses to spend more time at the bedside. We know there's a shortage of healthcare workers, regardless of where in the value chain that individual is, whether it's surgeons, primary care physicians, nursing staff, MAs, PA schedulers, there's a shortage. Therefore, how can AI really be utilized to allow the human to human interaction that needs to take place, particularly in healthcare because it's so personal, like that to me is a real major unlock that AI presents in the healthcare space.

Speaking about it more philosophically or more broadly, I think AI at this moment in time, and perhaps in the next year or two, presents almost this existential crisis. Where do we fit as an individual in the process of delivering fill in the blank, whatever it might be. And I think that's where if we focus on this is going to release time to do the things that I as the human can do most effectively, I think that's the best way to think about it. I also believe as part of the existential component and questions around what's AI going to do and dot dot dot, there is going to be a return to the Renaissance.

Meaning it's about the arts, it's about the creativity, it's about the human to human interaction of how we spend time on a day-to-day basis. Our stories as individuals and who we are, I think are going to start to shine more. And I think over time, particularly in the course of the next two, three years, year or two, we're going to see, I think we're going to find more and more ways to bring us together as communities in person, in real life. Or as my daughter will say, IRL.

That's what it's going to be about. Because a lot of the other activity is going to get automated or happens, but it's human to human part that AI will never replace. Yeah. I love that.

I agree. In fact, we were on a call and I think the nurse said, this will allow me to release, what did she say? Three or four nurses from calls to patient care, right? Isn't that what she said?

Yeah. Release three or four nurses. And then she added where one of the nurses is on maternity leave right now. Another nurse is not.

And so it'll release time so that we can spend more time with, I think she even went further to say in the OR. Like I became a nurse to spend time in the OR. I'm not getting a chance to do that. And so again, can we take that, what everybody describes as the operational and the administrative burden, those things have to happen.

They really, they have to happen. But if we can take them off or automate or reduce the level of effort required, it frees up time to really deliver true patient care. Right. So I'm really excited to launch the surgical journey.

This has been a great launch episode with you Amrit. Very exciting to get this going. Yeah. And I do want to say something personal that it's been, you know, like this is mission for me as well, you know, working with you and I love the mission part for you.

And I think that's why everyone that's surrounding you, you know, we all love what this will do for and has been doing for patients, their families, for clinicians, and just to see, you know, the whole group and the advisors and everyone around you Amrit, we all are in admiration truly for what you're doing. You really are impacting healthcare in just a positive way. So I just want to honor you in that. This has been just great so far and it'll be a fun next, you know, months and years, but to see what it all brings, but thank you.

You've done an amazing job at bringing something personal and to bring it to life. And I really give you a lot of kudos, a lot of credit for bringing that vision to life and you're helping so many people. So thank you. I appreciate that.

It's been a lot of fun and it's definitely not just me. It's yourself, Lisa, of course, and the rest of the team and Sai and a whole bunch of other folks that make this all go, including our advisors and such. So thank you for that. You're welcome.

I'm so excited to get this episode knocked out and here we go with the surgical journey. Here we go. To learn more about NovaNav, it's NovaNav.ai and you can reach Amrit Kirpalani on LinkedIn. And of course, we'll have all the information in the notes section.

So thank you, Amrit. Thank you, Lisa.